Should you backup SaaS with BaaS?
When you back up your SaaS apps (because you know you are supposed to), should you back them up to a SaaS service or on on-premises backup system? After defining what SaaS is and isn't, Prasanna and Curtis discuss this important question. First they look at how sizing a SaaS system for backup is different than when you do it in a datacenter, and how that creates challenges for backup design. Does it make sense to use on-premises backup to backup a cloud resource like SaaS?
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I do agree with your statement though, that SaaS has had as big of
Speaker:an impact to IT as virtualization.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But you are correct.
Speaker:there are some,
Speaker:Oh my gosh.
Speaker:Hold on.
Speaker:wait, listeners.
Speaker:I want listeners to know this is probably 140 some episodes in,
Speaker:Curtis just said I was correct.
Speaker:Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Speaker:I'm just saying,
Speaker:Hi, and welcome to Backup Central's Restore it All podcast.
Speaker:I'm your host, W.
Speaker:Curtis Preston, AKA Mr.
Speaker:Backup.
Speaker:And I have with me, a guy that knows way too much about baffles and how
Speaker:they relate to both air filtration And oil filtration, Prasanna Malaiyandi.
Speaker:And do you know where I learned all this knowledge from
Speaker:I'm going to, I'm just going to go on a limb and say youtube.
Speaker:Bing bing bing bing bing, yes.
Speaker:That is correct,
Speaker:Here I am having this discussion with you about, but, dust separation,
Speaker:dust collection, and when you have a dust collector, the first thing you
Speaker:gotta do is put this like separator thing that gets the big stuff out
Speaker:of the way, and they call it a baffle or there's a cyclone thing.
Speaker:And I started talking to you and you're like, oh, that reminds me of this baffle
Speaker:thing and the engine, and I'm like, what no world are you talking about?
Speaker:Yeah, because when you run high horsepower cars, and if you don't have
Speaker:a way to vent the crankcase pressure, then it'll cause your head gasket...
Speaker:I hate it when don't have enough way to vent my crankcase pressure.
Speaker:And so what they do is they basically drill a hole into the valve cover.
Speaker:They attach a hose and before the hose, there's a bunch of baffles because the
Speaker:last thing you want is engine oil, leaving the engine and going down this tub.
Speaker:That would be bad.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And then it goes down the tube into what they call a catch can, which
Speaker:basically separates out the liquids fall to the bottom, and then the
Speaker:rest of the vapors and everything else has vented out the top.
Speaker:And so that relieves the pressure of the engine.
Speaker:So it's almost the exact same thing as what you have.
Speaker:You need a mechanism to be able separate out, particles, from the air.
Speaker:Then this is doing thing.
Speaker:Separating out liquid from the air.
Speaker:And instead of returning the oil to the engine, I'm putting the
Speaker:wood particles down in a trash can.
Speaker:Yes, that is true.
Speaker:there's two things.
Speaker:One is they'll separate out the liquids in the catch can, and then
Speaker:you dumped the catch can periodically.
Speaker:Oh, you just dump it.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Gotcha.
Speaker:again, same thing.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:That's the waste that you dump.
Speaker:And the air that they're venting.
Speaker:in my case, the air is being vented to the actual, the dust collector itself
Speaker:that I've been informed is not a vacuum.
Speaker:it is a, an impeller and It pushes air.
Speaker:It doesn't pull air.
Speaker:I don't know what the difference is, but, know,
Speaker:It pushes air.
Speaker:That's what I've been told.
Speaker:It's not a vacuum, you put a hose on the front of it.
Speaker:It's going to suck.
Speaker:So it's got to really suck and that's its job.
Speaker:The stuff I'm researching lately due to my little woodworking project,
Speaker:I don't know what to tell you, but we're not here to talk about that.
Speaker:Can we just talk about that instead?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We could talk about that clearly for a while.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I have a list by the way, I've created a list of tasks in my house of stuff.
Speaker:I need to go do this evening.
Speaker:Little stuff that I need to do that have nothing to do with that project.
Speaker:because I've been so obsessed with that project, one of them is
Speaker:changing the air filter in my heater.
Speaker:That's
Speaker:I gotta, I gotta put the cover back on my barbecue.
Speaker:You can't put the cover on right away.
Speaker:Cause it's hot.
Speaker:And then I forget, I got to do that.
Speaker:I got to change the light bulbs in the bathroom, and I got to replace
Speaker:the batteries in the smoke detector.
Speaker:I'm glad everybody understands.
Speaker:This is what's going on in my life.
Speaker:This is what I'm doing.
Speaker:As soon as this is done, as I'm doing those menial tasks, because
Speaker:here's a question for you, because I tend to know random things about random things.
Speaker:how old are you smoke detectors?
Speaker:they're pretty new.
Speaker:They're like a year.
Speaker:You bought them within a year, but you bought them as battery ones
Speaker:because I thought in California, they're not allowed to sell without
Speaker:. It's battery backup.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Are you done?
Speaker:Judgy man, judging, McJudgyface?
Speaker:I just wanted to clarify, because my next question would be if your smoke detector
Speaker:was old enough to only require batteries, then I'd say you should probably replace.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I've actually changed the smoke detectors in his house a couple of times.
Speaker:one when I just felt that they just had way too many false alarms and
Speaker:especially in a world where now all the smoke detectors are connected.
Speaker:And so when one goes off, they all go off.
Speaker:And then my, my poor little granddaughter is very upset.
Speaker:She doesn't like it when something screams at her ear at
Speaker:three o'clock in the morning.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's no fun.
Speaker:no fun.
Speaker:So speaking of
Speaker:are we going to talk
Speaker:...? Talking about backup, backup,
Speaker:I thought we could talk about this world of SAS and I'm just going to, first
Speaker:I'll put out my disclaimer, I work for Druva, which is a SAS based backup
Speaker:company in case you don't know that.
Speaker:And Prasanna works for Zoom, which is a SAS.
Speaker:Unified communication
Speaker:as a service.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:UCAS.
Speaker:so we're all about, we're all, we're very sassy over here, but this is
Speaker:not a podcast of either company.
Speaker:The opinions that you hear are ours.
Speaker:And, and by the way, if you think I'm full of it, if you, after you listened
Speaker:to this podcast, if you think I'm full of it, I really want you to come on and
Speaker:I want you to tell me why I'm full of it.
Speaker:I'm happy to have you on,
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:your name is Stuart.
Speaker:If your name is Stuart, you're not coming on.
Speaker:Just saying
Speaker:Stuart, reach out to me.
Speaker:I'll schedule you in.
Speaker:Stuart's getting a lot of call outs lately.
Speaker:I got to finish my disclaimer.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:and so the opinions that you hear are ours, please rate us
Speaker:at ratethispodcast.com/restore.
Speaker:If you're listening to us on apple podcasts, just scroll down to the bottom,
Speaker:give us some stars, make a comment.
Speaker:It will make my day.
Speaker:You put in it, you actually put in an actual text review that will
Speaker:make my day so cool to hear people actually say nice things about us.
Speaker:And then, like I said, if you think that one of us or both of us are
Speaker:full of it, when we talk about
Speaker:Curtis
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Then the day, then come on the show and tell us otherwise we, we
Speaker:promise not to yell at you much.
Speaker:And, and that's all we have.
Speaker:So let's get talking about this.
Speaker:I'm going to say that the world of SAS has transformed the face
Speaker:of IT as much, if not more than virtualization, what do you think?
Speaker:So two questions...
Speaker:always two.
Speaker:The first is we should define what SaaS is, because SAS can mean
Speaker:different things for different people.
Speaker:sass only means one thing, but different people think differently.
Speaker:So that's a good point.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The second question is your statement you made that SaaS had has a bigger
Speaker:impact than virtualization, right?
Speaker:Is
Speaker:that correct on it?
Speaker:I think I might've said as, as big, if not more, as I think is what I said, but.
Speaker:I almost want to say yes, but I believe that the cloud has had a bigger impact
Speaker:on it than either of the prior 2.
Speaker:So the cloud includes SAS in my view
Speaker:view But SAS is not necessarily well, SAS, if you're SAS,
Speaker:you're going to be cloud, but.
Speaker:And virtualization cloud is virtualization
Speaker:Virtualization was a step to the cloud, Server virtualization.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:But yeah, Yeah, we could have a separate podcast where we just argue on that, but
Speaker:but no, I do agree with your statement though, that SaaS has had as big of
Speaker:an impact to IT as virtualization.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But you are correct.
Speaker:there are some,
Speaker:Oh my gosh.
Speaker:Hold on.
Speaker:wait, listeners.
Speaker:I want listeners to know this is probably 140 some episodes in,
Speaker:Curtis just said I was correct.
Speaker:Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Speaker:I'm just saying, so unless you're in Europe, in which case
Speaker:it's 24-hour o'clock, it's only right once a day, whatever.
Speaker:Anyway, so
Speaker:So the first point about SaaS
Speaker:yeah, so I think that is a really good point to make.
Speaker:And because there are like, I can think of one really big company,
Speaker:#Adobe who uses the term SAS.
Speaker:very incorrectly.
Speaker:So let me define something else before I define SaaS I'm going to
Speaker:define subscription-based pricing.
Subscription-based pricing is:I would like to use this software
Subscription-based pricing is:product - Adobe Illustrator - some software product like that.
Subscription-based pricing is:You're going to run on your laptop or a server or a desktop
Subscription-based pricing is:in your physical environment.
Subscription-based pricing is:I don't want to pay a thousand dollars for it right now, but what I am willing
Subscription-based pricing is:to Do is to pay $50 a month forever.
Subscription-based pricing is:And I will get the updated versions of that software as they come out with it.
Subscription-based pricing is:As they come out with Adobe illustrator, 12.0, I will get the latest and greatest?
Subscription-based pricing is:but I need to download that software and re-install it so that I can
Subscription-based pricing is:upgrade my local installation.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'm running the software on my hardware.
Subscription-based pricing is:That is the key.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'm either running it on my hardware arm, running it on hardware that I'm renting.
Subscription-based pricing is:So you can download Oracle and put Oracle in a server in AWS or Azure or
Subscription-based pricing is:GCP that, and you could pay Oracle.
Subscription-based pricing is:A thousand dollars a month per server, by the way, I literally
Subscription-based pricing is:have no idea what Oracle costs.
Subscription-based pricing is:I just made up a number.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's probably more than
Subscription-based pricing is:It's more than that,
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:So you
Subscription-based pricing is:but you're,
Subscription-based pricing is:bucks a month.
Subscription-based pricing is:but you're managing the hardware that
Subscription-based pricing is:You're managing the operating,
Subscription-based pricing is:Yep.
Subscription-based pricing is:you're managing the operating system as well.
Subscription-based pricing is:And in addition to installing the application,
Subscription-based pricing is:the only thing you're doing is you're paying for it differently.
Subscription-based pricing is:That is different.
Subscription-based pricing is:That is not SAS.
Subscription-based pricing is:This is one of these Curtis obsesses over the meaning of words
Subscription-based pricing is:No.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's important though, because I think a lot of people do get it confused.
Subscription-based pricing is:It is true.
Subscription-based pricing is:A lot of people, including competitors of Druva that refer to their subscription
Subscription-based pricing is:based pricing as SAS, they are wrong.
Subscription-based pricing is:That is not SAS.
Subscription-based pricing is:It sounds like it's software as a service.
Subscription-based pricing is:No, it's subscription-based pricing.
Subscription-based pricing is:That's all it is.
Subscription-based pricing is:You're just paying for it differently.
Subscription-based pricing is:That's all.
Subscription-based pricing is:It is nothing about the software has changed.
Subscription-based pricing is:Okay, that's subscription-based pricing.
Subscription-based pricing is:Then there is SAS and SAS is to me, super easy to define
Subscription-based pricing is:it's everything we just didn't.
Subscription-based pricing is:We didn't just define.
Subscription-based pricing is:And that is you do not, it is not running on your hardware.
Subscription-based pricing is:You are not responsible for the application behind the thing you're doing.
Subscription-based pricing is:You're only responsible for telling the application to
Subscription-based pricing is:do what it is supposed to do.
Subscription-based pricing is:And my example would be Microsoft 365.
Subscription-based pricing is:If you don't understand the difference between Exchange and paying for
Subscription-based pricing is:Exchange a thousand dollars a month.
Subscription-based pricing is:And by the way, in Curtis world, everything costs a
Subscription-based pricing is:thousand dollars a month.
Subscription-based pricing is:Except for a Tesla, which I recently found out costs more than that, but a thousand
Subscription-based pricing is:dollars a month for Exchange, that's running on your server and Microsoft 365,
Subscription-based pricing is:where you're paying five bucks a user times, however many users you're using.
Subscription-based pricing is:We're using a SAS app right now To
Subscription-based pricing is:To do this podcast
Subscription-based pricing is:To record this podcast ? You work for a company that has a SAS app that
Subscription-based pricing is:allows people to communicate together.
Subscription-based pricing is:I work for a company that has a SAS app that, that allows people to back
Subscription-based pricing is:up data from all over the place.
Subscription-based pricing is:that's a SAS app where I think the number one thing is that you are not responsible
Subscription-based pricing is:for managing any of the infrastructure.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yup.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yup.
Subscription-based pricing is:And you're not managing the application either.
Subscription-based pricing is:Like you're not installing updates for the application, so that's why not
Subscription-based pricing is:That is really important.
Subscription-based pricing is:You're not updates.
Subscription-based pricing is:The infrastructure.
Subscription-based pricing is:You just are using it.
Subscription-based pricing is:You always get the latest and greatest.
Subscription-based pricing is:You don't have to worry about anything.
Subscription-based pricing is:And I would argue that a proper SAS application that consumes
Subscription-based pricing is:storage and let's face it.
Subscription-based pricing is:They all consume storage.
Subscription-based pricing is:You also are not worried about that storage.
Subscription-based pricing is:You are not managing volumes.
Subscription-based pricing is:You're not worried about the fact, oh, I created this 10 terabyte file system
Subscription-based pricing is:and I'm getting close to filling it up.
Subscription-based pricing is:I need to go make another one or expand the one I have if you're doing anything
Subscription-based pricing is:that seems like that, that's not SAS.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yep.
Subscription-based pricing is:Capacity management, all that stuff.
Subscription-based pricing is:Now I know there will be people who say by the way, even with some of
Subscription-based pricing is:the SAS companies, I still install a piece of software on my laptop.
Subscription-based pricing is:Doesn't that make it not SAS?
Subscription-based pricing is:And I argue that is not yes, you do install a piece, but depending on
Subscription-based pricing is:how the SAS application is and other pieces like the core functionality,
Subscription-based pricing is:you are not managing at all.
Subscription-based pricing is:Right.
Subscription-based pricing is:Well, to go back to your G suite, analogy, G suite is clearly SAS, but
Subscription-based pricing is:you can put a G drive syncing piece on your laptop and synchronize G drive to
Subscription-based pricing is:your laptop that doesn't make G drive, not SAS, the core infrastructure.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's the infrastructure.
Subscription-based pricing is:Cause that's where all the pain is.
Subscription-based pricing is:I would also argue a good SAS product should help you upgrade that thing.
Subscription-based pricing is:That's running on your laptop automatically, right?
Subscription-based pricing is:You should not be having to manage that.
Subscription-based pricing is:To manually.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yup.
Subscription-based pricing is:Does that seem?
Subscription-based pricing is:I think that seems like a good definition for SaaS.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:If you can't see the difference between exchange on-prem and Microsoft 365, I,
Subscription-based pricing is:they are two very different products and, and clearly some of Druva's
Subscription-based pricing is:competitors don't see It that way.
Subscription-based pricing is:And I mentioned Adobe, CEO of Adobe, like a year or so ago, it could have
Subscription-based pricing is:been two years we're in COVID times it could have been 17 years ago.
Subscription-based pricing is:It all blends together.
Subscription-based pricing is:it does.
Subscription-based pricing is:But he said that Adobe was going to be a hundred percent SAS by,
Subscription-based pricing is:and he gave like 2025 or something.
Subscription-based pricing is:And I'm like, but you're not any SAS at this point.
Subscription-based pricing is:And that's when I realized what he means is a hundred percent subscription pricing.
Subscription-based pricing is:Because you're not going to do Adobe premier pro in a
Subscription-based pricing is:In the cloud.
Subscription-based pricing is:maybe you could maybe, I don't want to rule it out, but it's just
Subscription-based pricing is:that, for example, with premiere pro, you've got, it's all the,
Subscription-based pricing is:it's all that raw video data,
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:I don't think you could process it fast enough in a web browser to be able to
Subscription-based pricing is:the processing would happened back there.
Subscription-based pricing is:But you got to send all the data
Subscription-based pricing is:. to send all the raw data.
Subscription-based pricing is:up to the cloud before you could do anything.
Subscription-based pricing is:And there are some apps I think, to do that, but I think what
Subscription-based pricing is:he means is subscription based pricing, which, and I think they've
Subscription-based pricing is:transitioned to it for the most part.
Subscription-based pricing is:I don't think you could buy perpetual licenses of Adobe at this point
Subscription-based pricing is:I think everything's all Creative Suite, yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's all subscription, but I think this is the problem though, is
Subscription-based pricing is:people have adopted or stolen, right?
Subscription-based pricing is:The term SaaS to show that they are modern and that's what everyone else wants.
Subscription-based pricing is:And so for a lot of these companies who don't have a SAS solution or can't get
Subscription-based pricing is:to a SAS solution because of technology or other issues, They're like, oh
Subscription-based pricing is:yeah, we'll call it SaaS, but we're really subscription-based pricing.
Subscription-based pricing is:Which is just one element typically of SaaS.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's not the only element, but it's one of the important elements of SaaS.
Subscription-based pricing is:I would say
Subscription-based pricing is:So what was your second question?
Subscription-based pricing is:we already covered it.
Subscription-based pricing is:That was around weather cloud was bigger than SaaS.
Subscription-based pricing is:Oh yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:Okay.
Subscription-based pricing is:The reason why
Subscription-based pricing is:After that tangent.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah, but I, what I want to talk about is that Druva's SAS based data protection.
Subscription-based pricing is:We're not the only ones, but I want to talk about this idea
Subscription-based pricing is:of using what I'm going to call a traditional on-prem product.
Subscription-based pricing is:Now I'm including a newer, traditional on-prem products, right?
Subscription-based pricing is:They wouldn't, they do not consider themselves traditional.
Subscription-based pricing is:I don't consider themselves traditional.
Subscription-based pricing is:But this is an on-prem product that backs up stuff.
Subscription-based pricing is:Right.
Subscription-based pricing is:What I don't understand is the concept of using an on-prem backup architecture
Subscription-based pricing is:to back up things that are in the cloud,
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah,
Subscription-based pricing is:specifically SAS- based systems and native workloads.
Subscription-based pricing is:it does seem a little backwards, but I think here's my take on it.
Subscription-based pricing is:So yes, your application is running in the cloud.
Subscription-based pricing is:Now you have a couple options, right?
Subscription-based pricing is:You could say, okay, I'm going to dump it to the same cloud.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'm going to put it in some other cloud.
Subscription-based pricing is:Some customers are like, Hey, I already have a bunch of
Subscription-based pricing is:infrastructure running on prem.
Subscription-based pricing is:Let me just dump it to that.
Subscription-based pricing is:So it sits locally, right?
Subscription-based pricing is:And so it's in some other place that they can at least control.
Subscription-based pricing is:So they have control of that data versus something being in the cloud, which
Subscription-based pricing is:they may not always have controls over.
Subscription-based pricing is:Right.
Subscription-based pricing is:It could be one argument, another argument.
Subscription-based pricing is:And this is the one that I think falls apart is: okay, I have it
Subscription-based pricing is:locally in case, say, something happens to the cloud service, say
Subscription-based pricing is:something happens to Microsoft 365 and I can't get access to my mailbox.
Subscription-based pricing is:If I have the local copy on premises, I can spin it up.
Subscription-based pricing is:I can restore it or create a PST.
Subscription-based pricing is:I can download that PST onto a laptop.
Subscription-based pricing is:I could load it.
Subscription-based pricing is:I can get access to that critical deck that I need to.
Subscription-based pricing is:and I would say that's the argument for a separate backup system, but
Subscription-based pricing is:I don't see that as an argument for an on-prem backup system.
Subscription-based pricing is:I agree.
Subscription-based pricing is:what don't that gives you versus the other.
Subscription-based pricing is:There are people that, and by that, literally they want
Subscription-based pricing is:to touchy, feely the backup.
Subscription-based pricing is:they want it in their hot little hands.
Subscription-based pricing is:They want to see it.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'm sure you have a tape drive somewhere behind you, Curtis.
Subscription-based pricing is:The cloud is this, there's a line, I know you've never seen it, but there's a
Subscription-based pricing is:show called never have I ever on Netflix.
Subscription-based pricing is:And it's a teenage girl and the mom, there's a line in there where the teenage
Subscription-based pricing is:girl says, you won't pay for the cloud.
Subscription-based pricing is:And she's I refuse to pay for something that I can't see.
Subscription-based pricing is:it's a pretty good line in the show, but I think there are some who
Subscription-based pricing is:they've gone along with the cloud because it's really hard to argue
Subscription-based pricing is:about 365 versus on prem exchange.
Subscription-based pricing is:Once you've experienced one, it's really hard to experience
Subscription-based pricing is:the other, but still, have
Subscription-based pricing is:which is
Subscription-based pricing is:school way thinking.
Subscription-based pricing is:Because they've accepted the cloud, but they still want to touchy feelly.
Subscription-based pricing is:They have accepted it in the same way that I have accepted that I am going to die.
Subscription-based pricing is:At some point they know it's going to happen.
Subscription-based pricing is:Death, taxes, and the cloud that we're adding the cloud to the list
Subscription-based pricing is:of things that are going to happen.
Subscription-based pricing is:They've accepted it.
Subscription-based pricing is:They haven't taken it into their hearts.
Subscription-based pricing is:They just know there's no way
Subscription-based pricing is:They're no longer in denial.
Subscription-based pricing is:No They just know it's going to happen and that there's just, they're
Subscription-based pricing is:like fine, but I want a copy of that stuff in my hot little hands.
Subscription-based pricing is:, there are some that just think that, every time anything goes wrong in the
Subscription-based pricing is:cloud, they're just, I told you, so there's, the problem with the cloud
Subscription-based pricing is:Because when everything blows up, you'll come crawling to
Subscription-based pricing is:me and I will be the hero.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:exactly.
Subscription-based pricing is:For that person, there's literally nothing that I can say.
Subscription-based pricing is:they probably hung up 10 minutes ago.
Subscription-based pricing is:They're like, oh, he's going to talk SAS.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'm outta here.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'm going to go hold onto my
Subscription-based pricing is:Here's another argument that I've heard as well, which is for
Subscription-based pricing is:compliance or regulatory reasons.
Subscription-based pricing is:We might need to keep a copy on premises, or we cannot
Subscription-based pricing is:have the copy leave the cloud.
Subscription-based pricing is:And be replicated to another copy in the cloud.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'm going to make a broad sweeping statement, but I'm going to say that I'm
Subscription-based pricing is:sure there's a caveat that I don't know.
Subscription-based pricing is:I will say this .In my experience, which is extensive.
Subscription-based pricing is:Every time I've heard that there was a regulatory requirement that
Subscription-based pricing is:we have to have this or that.
Subscription-based pricing is:Stuff like this, where we have to have a copy on tape, or we have to
Subscription-based pricing is:have a copy on-prem I've never been able to be pointed at the actual
Subscription-based pricing is:regulation that they're talking about.
Subscription-based pricing is:In other words, I think a lot of them are just made up regulations.
Subscription-based pricing is:know that there are data sovereignty rules,
Subscription-based pricing is:. Yes.
Subscription-based pricing is:And that's the one.
Subscription-based pricing is:Like I could
Subscription-based pricing is:but not the same as what we're talking about here.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah, but I could imagine a case like a bank in Germany might say, look, we
Subscription-based pricing is:can use Microsoft 365 because maybe they have a presence in Germany, but
Subscription-based pricing is:if they needed to replicate the data, maybe Microsoft doesn't have a, another
Subscription-based pricing is:region or data center inside of Germany.
Subscription-based pricing is:And therefore we have to manually do something.
Subscription-based pricing is:Now, I don't know if that's a true scenario or not.
Subscription-based pricing is:I don't know where Microsoft has deployed their Microsoft 365 regions, but I could
Subscription-based pricing is:imagine a scenario like that in some countries where, because of the rules and
Subscription-based pricing is:regulations, they to do certain things.
Subscription-based pricing is:Data sovereignty would be a valid complaint.
Subscription-based pricing is:Germany is a great example.
Subscription-based pricing is:If you're using 365 and it runs in Germany and you're considering a SAS
Subscription-based pricing is:based backup service, and it runs in the US and it only runs in the US.
Subscription-based pricing is:That would be a dumb idea.
Subscription-based pricing is:First off, that would just be a dumb design.
Subscription-based pricing is:Second.
Subscription-based pricing is:It would not meet your data sovereignty requirements.
Subscription-based pricing is:So you definitely have to honor the data sovereignty requirements.
Subscription-based pricing is:But
Subscription-based pricing is:That doesn't mean you have to go on premises
Subscription-based pricing is:it just means don't pick that product that doesn't have.
Subscription-based pricing is:what's the word nexus within the requirements that you, need.
Subscription-based pricing is:That's a valid thing
Subscription-based pricing is:but that's probably like a 3% of the time situation where 97%
Subscription-based pricing is:of the time, you shouldn't have to worry about things like that.
Subscription-based pricing is:I can remember, for example, I was at a large, household
Subscription-based pricing is:name, pharmaceutical company.
Subscription-based pricing is:And I remember there was this person who was dictating the design.
Subscription-based pricing is:Like we have to make three tapes every Thursday and they have to
Subscription-based pricing is:put on the left side of the desk.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'm just Coming up with something here.
Subscription-based pricing is:And I was like, why are you doing that?
Subscription-based pricing is:That's hurting your design?
Subscription-based pricing is:And she's because of regulations.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's not my first pharma company.
Subscription-based pricing is:I don't know what you're talking about.
Subscription-based pricing is:And then she goes help me out, Steve.
Subscription-based pricing is:She said to this other guy, there's a regulation that says we have to do that.
Subscription-based pricing is:And he says Nope.
Subscription-based pricing is:So I'm just saying, I've seen this where time and time again, people say
Subscription-based pricing is:they're supposed to be doing something because of regulations and it turns
Subscription-based pricing is:out they weren't actually regulations.
Subscription-based pricing is:But if you do indeed have a regulation that says you have to have something
Subscription-based pricing is:on prem, first off, that regulation probably needs to be rewritten,
Subscription-based pricing is:because that was probably written 30 years ago before the cloud
Subscription-based pricing is:Or at least, or you might have a very different interpretation of
Subscription-based pricing is:what the regulation really means.
Subscription-based pricing is:And you should go talk to your compliance team about that.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yes, we are not giving legal advice.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yes,
Subscription-based pricing is:So I want to go so you're doing a pretty good job of playing devil's advocate
Subscription-based pricing is:I try.
Subscription-based pricing is:I try.
Subscription-based pricing is:That's why me around.
Subscription-based pricing is:Well you are the devil.
Subscription-based pricing is:so, and
Subscription-based pricing is:I do have a beard.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'm saying, look at me.
Subscription-based pricing is:What do you think It's not nearly as long as yours,
Subscription-based pricing is:It's looking good.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's starting to fell in better.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's because Mrs.
Subscription-based pricing is:Preston asked for a beard, saw this photo of me, where I had a beard
Subscription-based pricing is:once and she thought it looked good.
Subscription-based pricing is:And so she told me to grow it out, but I am under specific instructions
Subscription-based pricing is:to not grow it out like yours.
Subscription-based pricing is:Come on Curtis.
Subscription-based pricing is:Just do it.
Subscription-based pricing is:Do it just wait two years.
Subscription-based pricing is:There will be no "yeard" in this house and there will certainly not be a "tweard".
Subscription-based pricing is:How close are you to your tweard?
Subscription-based pricing is:two years will be in, I think, two weeks.
Subscription-based pricing is:I just can't.
Subscription-based pricing is:We should have a party.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'll bring my sheers over.
Subscription-based pricing is:so what I want to say is to talk about the things you have to do.
Subscription-based pricing is:If you're going to use an on-prem system.
Subscription-based pricing is:To back up a cloud-based resource.
Subscription-based pricing is:So assuming, what it is you want, that you have 365, you have Salesforce, you
Subscription-based pricing is:know that you have AWS or Azure or GCP.
Subscription-based pricing is:The first thing you have to do is you have to size that environment.
Subscription-based pricing is:And while that's a perfectly normal thing to do in the data center, not a perfectly
Subscription-based pricing is:normal thing to do in the SAS world.
Subscription-based pricing is:How big is my thing?
Subscription-based pricing is:it's 350 users, right?
Subscription-based pricing is:How many gigabytes is that?
Subscription-based pricing is:Right?
Subscription-based pricing is:Why do you care??
Subscription-based pricing is:Why do you care?
Subscription-based pricing is:because I'm about to go design a backup system.
Subscription-based pricing is:And that's the first number that I need.
Subscription-based pricing is:You need that number.
Subscription-based pricing is:You also need the daily change number.
Subscription-based pricing is:You are never going to get that number.
Subscription-based pricing is:That is literally not in anybody's database anywhere.
Subscription-based pricing is:The only way you're going to find that number out is to back up the system
Subscription-based pricing is:and then back it up again and see what the number is every day, which
Subscription-based pricing is:means that the two numbers that you need to design a decent backup system,
Subscription-based pricing is:you might be able to get one of them.
Subscription-based pricing is:There's no way you're getting the second one.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yep.
Subscription-based pricing is:And so right off you're handicapped,
Subscription-based pricing is:Yep.
Subscription-based pricing is:And then what are you going to deal with in terms of like the growth, because
Subscription-based pricing is:another thing you're also going to have to plan for your infrastructure because
Subscription-based pricing is:you want to plan a bit ahead, so sure you have users and you have the change
Subscription-based pricing is:rate, but what does growth look like?
Subscription-based pricing is:And remember, this is the same reasons that you went to 365,
Subscription-based pricing is:they apply on your backup system.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's a pain to administer an on-prem system.
Subscription-based pricing is:Maybe you're buying a more modern system and it has a scale out architecture
Subscription-based pricing is:and it's easy to add capacity to it.
Subscription-based pricing is:Have you tried adding capacity during the pandemic?
Subscription-based pricing is:in COVID times Curtis?
Subscription-based pricing is:What Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:I wasn't even thinking about that, but Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:So setting that aside, adding capacity to your system may be easier
Subscription-based pricing is:than it used to be, but you still, you have to manage that capacity.
Subscription-based pricing is:You have to know what you need, buy it in advance again.
Subscription-based pricing is:Right now you have to buy it way in advance because who knows what sort of
Subscription-based pricing is:truckers situation's going to be going on.
Subscription-based pricing is:We were short on truckers and now they're like striking.
Subscription-based pricing is:So who knows how long it will take you to get what you need.
Subscription-based pricing is:and then the next thing is, so you've designed the system, right?
Subscription-based pricing is:Let's say you designed it, you built it big and beefy enough
Subscription-based pricing is:to back all this stuff up.
Subscription-based pricing is:Let's say you're good at that.
Subscription-based pricing is:We are living in a new world that is completely foreign to what I remember when
Subscription-based pricing is:I was admining backup systems and that is you really need to secure this system.
Subscription-based pricing is:And I would argue, it needs to be more secure than the rest of your data center.
Subscription-based pricing is:does that seem like a valid statement?
Subscription-based pricing is:I agree because that contains the keys to the kingdom and
Subscription-based pricing is:that's your last- resort copy.
Subscription-based pricing is:And so you need to make sure nothing can impact that.
Subscription-based pricing is:And so you should be looking at a backup software products that are,
Subscription-based pricing is:now, this is assuming you're going to design this on-prem system, right?
Subscription-based pricing is:So you need a backup software product that does not require root or administrator.
Subscription-based pricing is:Cause you're going to shut down root or administrator.
Subscription-based pricing is:You're going to disable RDP.
Subscription-based pricing is:You're going to disable SSH.
Subscription-based pricing is:And you're like, but that means I would have to go on-prem to
Subscription-based pricing is:manage my on-prem backup system.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yes.
Subscription-based pricing is:That's exactly what I'm saying, right?
Subscription-based pricing is:Yes.
Subscription-based pricing is:That's a pain in the butt, but that's the only way you're
Subscription-based pricing is:going to secure this thing.
Subscription-based pricing is:And if you disagree with me and you're going to allow administrator
Subscription-based pricing is:action, then you're going to do MFA.
Subscription-based pricing is:You've got MFA on that.
Subscription-based pricing is:You're going to have to do that.
Subscription-based pricing is:We didn't have to do MFA back in the day.
Subscription-based pricing is:This is just for the root or administrator account.
Subscription-based pricing is:That's behind your backup system.
Subscription-based pricing is:I was just wondering though, I know you talked about disabling SSH and
Subscription-based pricing is:all the rest, but you could also do like the console port diags right.
Subscription-based pricing is:yes.
Subscription-based pricing is:Like a KVM, you mean?
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yes.
Subscription-based pricing is:You KVM, but then you got to secure the crap out of that thing.
Subscription-based pricing is:Um,
Subscription-based pricing is:But that should be part of your, what the IDRAC system and all the
Subscription-based pricing is:rest to allow remote management.
Subscription-based pricing is:Exactly right.
Subscription-based pricing is:and I would still argue that there's a case to be made for not making
Subscription-based pricing is:that a part of the normal world, because the normal world gets
Subscription-based pricing is:attacked, it should be separate.
Subscription-based pricing is:And along with that, it, I do not think that your root or administrator stuff
Subscription-based pricing is:should be part of active directory.
Subscription-based pricing is:I do not think that the user IDs that are used to log into your
Subscription-based pricing is:backup system, the server, not the root or admin, but the backup admin.
Subscription-based pricing is:Hopefully that should be a separate account, right?
Subscription-based pricing is:Yes.
Subscription-based pricing is:I think that should be a separate account from your active directory because if
Subscription-based pricing is:active directory is compromised, you could then compromise the backup system.
Subscription-based pricing is:, and then there's the whole thing of securing the backup storage itself.
Subscription-based pricing is:you spent quite a lot of time at, that other company.
Subscription-based pricing is:We used to just NFS- Mount or SMB Mount those to the system, but that is insecure.
Subscription-based pricing is:So there is a multiple protocol ways, To
Subscription-based pricing is:There's what they call data domain boost, which allowed protocol access.
Subscription-based pricing is:You would embed a SDK into your backup agent.
Subscription-based pricing is:It would know how to talk over this very specific protocol to
Subscription-based pricing is:securely, write to a data domain.
Subscription-based pricing is:And so it wasn't just widely available over NFS or SMB.
Subscription-based pricing is:And the other mechanism would be also to use Fibre Channel so
Subscription-based pricing is:connectivity over Fibre Channel.
Subscription-based pricing is:So it shows up as a disk, which is also more secure than NFS or SMB,
Subscription-based pricing is:I would argue that still does it doesn't solve my problem.
Subscription-based pricing is:I don't like that method.
Subscription-based pricing is:I don't want it to appear as a file on the file system, on the server at all.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yes that wouldn't solve that problem.
Subscription-based pricing is:And then the third method is a virtual tape library or.
Subscription-based pricing is:Which you could then access,
Subscription-based pricing is:that makes it, a little bit harder to attack it.
Subscription-based pricing is:Doesn't make it all you need is just some specialized software
Subscription-based pricing is:to blow away all those tapes.
Subscription-based pricing is:But, I would argue that the only secure way to do it as Boost or something like
Subscription-based pricing is:where it doesn't show up as anything accessible in the operating system,
Subscription-based pricing is:which means that if the backup server is hacked, then it can't access the backups.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:now I will say that in order to make it convenient for people, Data Domain did
Subscription-based pricing is:release what they call boost file system, which allows a, basically allows the
Subscription-based pricing is:boost protocol to be used, but enables a NFS Mount point on your local device.
Subscription-based pricing is:Okay.
Subscription-based pricing is:And that would then fail your criteria right.
Subscription-based pricing is:Where it's not secure because it's always available.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's sitting there.
Subscription-based pricing is:Anyone can access it.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:So all you need to do is figure out which one of these seven different
Subscription-based pricing is:ways to connect your backup storage is the appropriate one and pick the
Subscription-based pricing is:most, I think you should pick the most secure one, but it's probably
Subscription-based pricing is:also the most complicated one.
Subscription-based pricing is:And I guess the point I'm making here is why would you do that?
Subscription-based pricing is:If you didn't have to do that, why would you do that?
Subscription-based pricing is:If you use a true SaaS product, you should not have to worry
Subscription-based pricing is:about capacity management.
Subscription-based pricing is:You don't have to worry about any of that.
Subscription-based pricing is:You don't have to size the back end.
Subscription-based pricing is:You do but only from a licensing perspective.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah, because you need to still care about your costs, but
Subscription-based pricing is:you still have to pay for it and you could see you could get it wrong.
Subscription-based pricing is:And that just means you need to pay a little bit more.
Subscription-based pricing is:You don't have to go redesign your storage system.
Subscription-based pricing is:You don't have to worry about the bandwidth to back it up.
Subscription-based pricing is:You don't have to worry about that whole thing of not knowing
Subscription-based pricing is:how big an incremental backup is.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yep.
Subscription-based pricing is:doesn't matter.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's not your problem.
Subscription-based pricing is:Cause you don't care.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yep.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:I would argue though, that you may need to care just to make sure you're able to
Subscription-based pricing is:meet your backup windows, And your RPOs.
Subscription-based pricing is:I think recovery testing from SAS to SAS is just as important
Subscription-based pricing is:as recovery testing elsewhere.
Subscription-based pricing is:So I would agree.
Subscription-based pricing is:And, but I guess what you're saying is you can't just ignore how big your system is.
Subscription-based pricing is:and I think that's true either side.
Subscription-based pricing is:But I'm just saying from a capacity management persective
Subscription-based pricing is:perspective, You just have to pay for however many users your system has.
Subscription-based pricing is:And done.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yep.
Subscription-based pricing is:And it, what's great is it's matches the exact same way that
Subscription-based pricing is:you're actually licensing the production application itself.
Subscription-based pricing is:Like Microsoft 365.
Subscription-based pricing is:Otherwise, it's so hard to like, be like, Hey, how much front-end
Subscription-based pricing is:storage this for 500 users.
Subscription-based pricing is:And you're guesstimating and being like, I think it's 10 gigabytes, a user.
Subscription-based pricing is:And I hope I'm right, because otherwise I'm going to need to
Subscription-based pricing is:buy extra capacity or I bought too much and spent too much money.
Subscription-based pricing is:Which is probably what you will do.
Subscription-based pricing is:You probably will overestimate.
Subscription-based pricing is:That's what we always did with backup systems.
Subscription-based pricing is:You always overestimated and you typically buy way more than you need.
Subscription-based pricing is:And, but again, with the SAS world, with a true SAS product, you buy and
Subscription-based pricing is:pay for only what you need and use.
Subscription-based pricing is:To me, it just makes sense to backup SAS, to SAS, like you bought off
Subscription-based pricing is:on the value of SAS for, say, 365.
Subscription-based pricing is:Why would you want to go backwards in time?
Subscription-based pricing is:You're in the 21st century with your mail app.
Subscription-based pricing is:Why would you want to be in the 20th century with your backup app?
Subscription-based pricing is:I just don't.
Subscription-based pricing is:don't, I don't understand.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:so anyway, I knew you'd be be a good devil's advocate for me though.
Subscription-based pricing is:Sorry.
Subscription-based pricing is:So why have you here to give me this?
Subscription-based pricing is:Give me the sass and to advise me on dust collection design.
Subscription-based pricing is:Anytime Curtis.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'm always here.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:You and I w we're not going anywhere.
Subscription-based pricing is:Literally.
Subscription-based pricing is:here only question is, we're on our computer all the time.
Subscription-based pricing is:It's just, are we talking to you?
Subscription-based pricing is:We're talking to work.
Subscription-based pricing is:Are we watching YouTube.
Subscription-based pricing is:Yeah.
Subscription-based pricing is:YouTube.
Subscription-based pricing is:I'm watching YouTube even right now.
Subscription-based pricing is:you probably are.
Subscription-based pricing is:All right.
Subscription-based pricing is:thanks to our listeners.
Subscription-based pricing is:We love, got ot, gotta shout out to you and remember to subscribe
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